Camaro engine swap...which 350 version would you use?

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Permalink Reply by Ismo Ojaniemi on October 19, 2009 at 11:15am

Sorry about the rough sounding words yesterday,...had a couple too many "day-off" beers! ..and got a bit self protective. I appreciate ALL input,..again sorry about that Kevin. P.S. You're right about the rear main being changed in August of 1986 to a one piece. On the other note,..the 350 after '86 "IS" a 2-bolt main block. I was told by the owner it was a 4-bolt??,.. he must have swapped it out and got a 350 from an earlier model with the 4-bolt...or he's full of "southern cow by-product"!!!

Kevin Michael Lee said:

You didnt goof Spike, but I didnt consider about swapping everything over either. That was my mistake. Ismo, that is great that you can do all the work yourself. I didnt say to have a shop do the work. I said check with them on how your emission laws worked! And Spike was also right before, the 89 Blazer will be TBI fuel injected, not a carb set up. So you will also have to do something for the fuel pump to run the TBI.

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Permalink Reply by Ismo Ojaniemi on October 19, 2009 at 11:31am

Spike,.. don't fret yet...I I haven't made up my mind 100% yet, hence this thread. I was having a couple beers yesterday, (as Kevin knows...), and started digging around the old boxes of parts in the "old" garage, and Lo and behold,...what do I find?..... a "HOLLEY 750 DOUBLE PUMPER" !!! I haven't seen this carb in 17 years! If memory serves,.. it came off of my 1974 Olda Cutlass "S", (with the 455 Rocket),..I ended up selling that car when I lived in Calgary, AB., Canada.... or the '74 Monte with the 350 ? ... too many years,..too many beers!...ago.

Spike said:

If I'd known that you were wanting a TPI or TBI in the first place, I'd have answered differently. I'd have said use the 89 engine & powertrain. If TPI is what you want. Hit the junkyard and pick up oe from a late Camaro complete so that you would have all compatible hard & soft parts.
I allowed myself to believe that you were going in a different direction. Oh well, same game, different story.

Ismo Ojaniemi said:

I'm swapping the whole kit&capoodle! 1989 350cid with it's own computer and the carb??? ..I'm going to fuel injected son,..been a mechanic/fabricator/car restorer for 29 years. This Camaro will be my 108th vehicle, (25th I've kept). I don't use MY LOCAL shops...because I am the local shop!

Kevin Michael Lee said:

Spike please say different if I am wrong here. If I remember correctly, GM didnt go to the one piece rear main seal until 1986. That would mean that his Z-28 already has a 2 piece rear main, with the larger flexplate, which wont interchange with the 89 block. And also if they did things different in Canada, that 89 Blazer should be a 2 bolt main, not a 4 bolt setup. GM got rid of the 4 bolt main blocks with the early 2 piece rear main in the trucks. I had replaced engines in that year Blazer here at work in the past, and it was a 2 bolt main.

Spike is also right about checking your emission laws first there. I would go to your local shop that you trust and ask them before you do too many modifications. That Z-28 has what is called a feedback carb on it, and a electronic spark controlled dist, both of wich are controlled by the PCM. If you get rid of that carb, you will also lose the TPS sensor, which the PCM needs to work the spark control properly. It could get costly getting that 4BBL carb modified for performance use, to handle that 350. If you cant get rid of the PCM for emmisions reasons, I would suggest at least finding a carb from an 84-85 Chev truck 350, which should also be a feedback carb. At least it will be a larger CFM carb, and handle rejetting better, and your new 350

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Permalink Reply by Marion on October 19, 2009 at 11:35am

Hey Ismo,
My son and I did this exact swap on his 86 Z28 recently. Heres what we learned about the computer controlled carb. It can be made to work well but it takes some special parts. Assuming u can still get them after the bankruptcy, check with GMCOPO at GMCOPO.com for the following parts...a new ECM(required for your year model)and upgraded PROM chip, new electronic spark control (aka knock module), new fan switch, and a new knock sensor(required due to the larger bore diameter of the 350). Youll also need to check with Sean Murphy Induction for mods to your carb so itll flow the xtra fuel youre gonna need with the hotter engine. Its calibrated for a stock 305 after all. Go to smicarburetor.com for this. Youll also need to upgrade your fuel delivery system for the same reason. GMCOPO recommends a TPI in-tank pump with regulator but you can get by with a Carter mechanical pump PN M5900 for normal street use. This will keep you smog legal and should be good to 350-375 HP at the crank. If youre looking for more HP I'd go with an aftermarket EFI system. Holley makes a system they call the Stealthram and Edelbrock just came out with the Proflo XT system just this year that boasts sequential port injection. Depending on your local emissions regs though you may be restricted to the OE TPI setup for EFI. If u have to do this check with Tuned Port Injection Service(TPIS.com)for options that will allow a surprising amount of HP and keep your emissions legality. Have fun!

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Permalink Reply by Ismo Ojaniemi on October 19, 2009 at 12:09pm

Thanks for the input Marion! The smog legalities are not really a "major" issue for us as of yet; I live in a small-mid size town here in Canada, and our population is around 125,000 people. Here, in our small town are not yet "LEGALLY REQUIRED" to get the "sniffer" test done on our vehicles yet. Just fix up your ride for the "safety standards certification", (brakes, windshield not cracked, E-brake, no holes for exhaust gases to seep into cab, lights/signals/emergency flashers/reverse lights...etc., and get your plates...as long as you have your insurance paid up). Some vehicles manufactured before "1980-ish", are not required to have catalytic converters even,..as long as they were "born" without them. On a different note/same perspective, ...say my old 1963 Dodge Fargo(D-100..[sold]..), wasn't made with seat belts,..not required to be added by law..as long as they were made without them.

Marion said:

Hey Ismo,
My son and I did this exact swap on his 86 Z28 recently. Heres what we learned about the computer controlled carb. It can be made to work well but it takes some special parts. Assuming u can still get them after the bankruptcy, check with GMCOPO for the following parts...a new ECM(required for your year model)and upgraded PROM chip, new electronic spark control (aka knock module), new fan switch, and a new knock sensor(required due to the larger bore diameter of the 350). Youll also need to check with Sean Murphy Induction for mods to your carb so itll flow the xtra fuel youre gonna need with the hotter engine. Its calibrated for a stock 305 after all. Go to smicarburetor.com for this. Youll also need to upgrade your fuel delivery system for the same reason. GMCOPO recommends a TPI in-tank pump with regulator but you can get by with a Carter mechanical pump PN M5900 for normal street use. This will keep you smog legal and should be good to 350-375 HP at the crank. If youre looking for more HP I'd go with an aftermarket EFI system. Holley makes a system they call the Stealthram and Edelbrock just came out with the Proflo XT system just this year that boasts sequential port injection. Depending on your local emissions regs though you may be restricted to the OE TPI setup for EFI. If u have to do this check with Tuned Port Injection Service(TPIS.com)for options that will allow a surprising amount of HP and keep your emissions legality. Have fun!

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Permalink Reply by Marion on October 19, 2009 at 6:42pm

Well Ismo, since u dont have stringent smog regs u have some leeway. Obviously, the carb and pre-computer HEI would b the most cost-effective way to go. Youll need to snag a stand-alone unit to control the lockup torque converter on your 700R4 though. However, an aftermarket EFI would give you better fuel mileage and reduce concerns about a sniffer test being imposed on down the road. Youd have to check but I think the aftermarket EFI units can b set up to control a lockup converter too. Anyway, heres my two cents worth...rebuild the shortblock back to stock specs using flattop pistons. Forged or hypereutectic, your call. Going to studs rather than bolts in the main caps would probly b a good idea if u have 2-bolt mains. Pick up a roller cam accessory kit from GM performance parts and stab in the hydraulic roller of your choice. Patriot Performance has some real economical aluminum heads that move a lot of air for $900/set and thats where I'd go for heads. With 64cc chambers, .020 deck clearance, and a .028 composition head gasket u should come in about 10:1 on compression. The Holley Stealthram would b about as economical as you can get for EFI and the kit includes all the electronics and hardware from the fuel tank to the engine. Basically everything u need to convert to EFI for a little under $2500. Depending on your cam selection youll probly be good for around 400HP at the crank. At that point your biggest problems will b lack of beef between the engine and back tires. Aint modern technology great?

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Permalink Reply by Spike on October 21, 2009 at 12:44pm

I "think" that you should have a 700R-4 trans in both cars. Memory says that they were discontinued much earlier, unless of course, Canada was different. But I think, (that word again), that you said the car was from Ca. ??? Help me out anybody. Is my memory faulty, or just adequate

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Permalink Reply by Carl on November 1, 2009 at 1:25pm

Just my two cents worth here, but if it were me I would go with the 89 model engine and trans. It should be atleast TBI which would make for better driveability in cold weather, or when the engine its self is cold. As well as a slight increase in fuel mileage. You should be able to find pretty much anything you need for either engine in the aftermarket as far as performance mods. If you rebuild it right, it will have plenty of torque, still be smog legal, and have the dependability needed for a daily driver. But the thing that would make me lean that way the most would be the ease of starting in cold weather, especially since you mentioned how cold it is up there already, and you never have to worry about setting the choke or adjusting it after a weekend of hard romps on the throttle. Like I said just my two cents worth and it may not even be worth that to you, but that's what I would do and why. Hope that helps.

Carl

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Permalink Reply by Ismo Ojaniemi on November 1, 2009 at 5:04pm

Thanks Carl, that actually is worth a bit MORE than 2 cents worth,..in my book. I was leaning that way myself. So, what do you think about an upgrade on this TBI setup later on? the plan I initially had was to try and get a TPI setup, for the torque and HP advantage, (like the 1987+ Iroc Z's.

Carl said:

Just my two cents worth here, but if it were me I would go with the 89 model engine and trans. It should be atleast TBI which would make for better driveability in cold weather, or when the engine its self is cold. As well as a slight increase in fuel mileage. You should be able to find pretty much anything you need for either engine in the aftermarket as far as performance mods. If you rebuild it right, it will have plenty of torque, still be smog legal, and have the dependability needed for a daily driver. But the thing that would make me lean that way the most would be the ease of starting in cold weather, especially since you mentioned how cold it is up there already, and you never have to worry about setting the choke or adjusting it after a weekend of hard romps on the throttle. Like I said just my two cents worth and it may not even be worth that to you, but that's what I would do and why. Hope that helps.

Carl

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Permalink Reply by Marion 19 hours ago

Heyb Ismo,
Got my latest copy of Hot Rod a couple weeks ago and came across a tech article u might b interested in for an induction option on your Camaro. Its called the EZ EFI from FAST (Fuel, Air, Spark Technologies) and looks to be not only an easy install but very adaptable and efficient. Best of all FAST says itll support up to 600hp. Ck out the article at hotrod.com. Click on the "Technical" tab and scroll down to "Engine". Itll b the first article u see

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