Camaro engine swap...which 350 version would you use?

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Permalink Reply by Spike on October 18, 2009 at 4:42pm

OK, I'll step in first. The 305 will cost more money for a 'kit' to rebuild than to rebuild a 350 either one.
NOW, the 77 350 most likely has the most miles and being older may have been mistreated more than the 89 engine.
The 77 is a two piece rear main seal & has a flat tappet cam. The 89 engine will have roller lifters & cam. Plus it is a one piece rear main seal. It just depends on what you want. If neither engine 'knocks' then it is: whether you want a hydraulic roller cam stock (cam & lifters are more expensive). 1977 has a hydraulic flat tappet cam ( cheaper). I forgot, the 77 has a carb. The 89 most likely has a TBI, & is computer controlled. If you need a compatible engine to swap that won't get the 'smog' police after you. The 89 engine (& computer & wiring) will be a better match. My opinion is worth the paper it's "printed" on.

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Permalink Reply by Ismo Ojaniemi on October 18, 2009 at 5:30pm

Thanks for the quick response Spike, I was leaning that way as well. I have driven by these 2 prospective vehicles and talked with the owner over the phone, (he works all the time...hard to pin down). I had the opportunity to check out both, (but they were locked..hence I haven't had the chance to open the hood. '77 is in better shape, body wise,..'89 needs floor boards..etc. etc.. BUT,.. its the running gear we're after here isn't it. Both dashes are removed,..no mileage to be seen. Is there a chance that the '89 Blazer came with a 350 TPI and not that dreaded TBI?

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Permalink Reply by Spike on October 18, 2009 at 5:52pm

It's my understanding that both were run. Does your Camaro have a TPI ? You probably could get by with the top end of the 305 but use the larger (I expect) injectors from the 350. I'm not a EFI guy. I'm guessing from hearsay. I don't which dist. would be best either. Yours is integrated to the Camaro electronics. Someone will know. If the Smog checkers aren't too sticky how about looking at an aftermarket TBI they say will run up to 1000 HP. What do you really want from this ? A better performing car, or a 'double-down' "BadAss" car? We used to run hopped up cars that were always evolving. A little more power for the weekends 'trolling' for some 'light to light' action. When more money came by, the car was worked on, hopefully better than before. When you get the hood open check the dipstick, you want an idea about how it was cared for (or not cared for).

Ismo Ojaniemi said:

Thanks for the quick response Spike, I was leaning that way as well. I have driven by these 2 prospective vehicles and talked with the owner over the phone, (he works all the time...hard to pin down). I had the opportunity to check out both, (but they were locked..hence I haven't had the chance to open the hood. '77 is in better shape, body wise,..'89 needs floor boards..etc. etc.. BUT,.. its the running gear we're after here isn't it. Both dashes are removed,..no mileage to be seen. Is there a chance that the '89 Blazer came with a 350 TPI and not that dreaded TBI?

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Permalink Reply by Gene-0 on October 18, 2009 at 6:05pm

being an 89 odds are in favor of the TBI as I don't think they offered TPI on trucks at least of that vintage. I'd have to agree with spikes thought process as well, except for the cost of a rebuild kit. I'm not sure I believe it's any more expensive to rebuild the 305. But as they say there's no replacement for displacement I'd go with the 350 too. I have a few questions for you though, I have an '85 IROC (photo's on my page if you're curious) mines equipt as follows from the factory; 305 carburated 4bbl, T5 5-speed, 4 wheel power disc brakes, power steering, and cruise. The only mods are an Edelbrock intake and performer carb. And now custom paint job. How is yours set up? carb or tbi? automatic, etc?

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Permalink Reply by Ismo Ojaniemi on October 18, 2009 at 7:00pm

I just picked this Camaro up earlier this summer. I haven't done nothing except clean it up, re-wire a bit, (previous owner...25year old youngster,..tried putting in a push button start), to say the least... it didn't pan out too well. The purple wire was the hardest to relocate, (he had it black taped up, and hidden inside the metal heat tube at the passenger side rear of engine block). I finally got it going... and even adjusting the distributer didn't stop the loping. It needs definite rebuild or...my way,..replacement. To answer your question, 1985 Camaro Z28 T-Top car, 305, 4bbl. carb., 700 R4 automatic, ps., pb., front disc brakes, 3.23 gears, made at the Ohio plant, (at least It's an American car!). So,..plainly speaking,...it's bone stock! ...but not for long though. To come: 4th gen seating, new carpeting, 4-bolt main 350cid... most likely the 1989 Blazer motor with 0.030" overbore, not sure on all the specifics yet, (pistons, rings, bearings, .....).

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Permalink Reply by Ismo Ojaniemi on October 18, 2009 at 7:15pm

I think i'll start with total tear down, repair rust etc., do up the 1989 4-bolt 350, re-do the TH350, (shift kit...), SFC(Sub-frame connectors), interior, rear-end, suspension... I'm getting it all done "MODERATE" build on this round and..YES,..upgrade as the funds /upgrsding time/bored of current set-up sets in. Sky's the limit for a summer cruiser.

Spike said:

It's my understanding that both were run. Does your Camaro have a TPI ? You probably could get by with the top end of the 305 but use the larger (I expect) injectors from the 350. I'm not a EFI guy. I'm guessing from hearsay. I don't which dist. would be best either. Yours is integrated to the Camaro electronics. Someone will know. If the Smog checkers aren't too sticky how about looking at an aftermarket TBI they say will run up to 1000 HP. What do you really want from this ? A better performing car, or a 'double-down' "BadAss" car? We used to run hopped up cars that were always evolving. A little more power for the weekends 'trolling' for some 'light to light' action. When more money came by, the car was worked on, hopefully better than before. When you get the hood open check the dipstick, you want an idea about how it was cared for (or not cared for).

Ismo Ojaniemi said:

Thanks for the quick response Spike, I was leaning that way as well. I have driven by these 2 prospective vehicles and talked with the owner over the phone, (he works all the time...hard to pin down). I had the opportunity to check out both, (but they were locked..hence I haven't had the chance to open the hood. '77 is in better shape, body wise,..'89 needs floor boards..etc. etc.. BUT,.. its the running gear we're after here isn't it. Both dashes are removed,..no mileage to be seen. Is there a chance that the '89 Blazer came with a 350 TPI and not that dreaded TBI?

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Lee on October 18, 2009 at 8:44pm

Spike please say different if I am wrong here. If I remember correctly, GM didnt go to the one piece rear main seal until 1986. That would mean that his Z-28 already has a 2 piece rear main, with the larger flexplate, which wont interchange with the 89 block. And also if they did things different in Canada, that 89 Blazer should be a 2 bolt main, not a 4 bolt setup. GM got rid of the 4 bolt main blocks with the early 2 piece rear main in the trucks. I had replaced engines in that year Blazer here at work in the past, and it was a 2 bolt main.

Spike is also right about checking your emission laws first there. I would go to your local shop that you trust and ask them before you do too many modifications. That Z-28 has what is called a feedback carb on it, and a electronic spark controlled dist, both of wich are controlled by the PCM. If you get rid of that carb, you will also lose the TPS sensor, which the PCM needs to work the spark control properly. It could get costly getting that 4BBL carb modified for performance use, to handle that 350. If you cant get rid of the PCM for emmisions reasons, I would suggest at least finding a carb from an 84-85 Chev truck 350, which should also be a feedback carb. At least it will be a larger CFM carb, and handle rejetting better, and your new 350

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Permalink Reply by Spike on October 18, 2009 at 10:29pm

OK, you have a wide open field. You still haven't mentioned smog regulations for your year car. If there are none, I'd do the '89 350. A .030"over bore, valve job, Cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM AirGap with a 600 to 750 Edelbrock or Holley. If the smog people only want to see a stock carb in their test, just add an adapter plate & plunk the stock carb on for a couple of days. Don't forget a set of headers & duals With or W/O cats. You can have a lot of fun with it. I had an '84
Z-28 I had fun roaring around with it. Go for it. If you need any more ideas, write in. BTW, the stock distributor is operated in conjunction with the Computer. It may not be what you want for performance.

Ismo Ojaniemi said:

I just picked this Camaro up earlier this summer. I haven't done nothing except clean it up, re-wire a bit, (previous owner...25year old youngster,..tried putting in a push button start), to say the least... it didn't pan out too well. The purple wire was the hardest to relocate, (he had it black taped up, and hidden inside the metal heat tube at the passenger side rear of engine block). I finally got it going... and even adjusting the distributer didn't stop the loping. It needs definite rebuild or...my way,..replacement. To answer your question, 1985 Camaro Z28 T-Top car, 305, 4bbl. carb., 700 R4 automatic, ps., pb., front disc brakes, 3.23 gears, made at the Ohio plant, (at least It's an American car!). So,..plainly speaking,...it's bone stock! ...but not for long though. To come: 4th gen seating, new carpeting, 4-bolt main 350cid... most likely the 1989 Blazer motor with 0.030" overbore, not sure on all the specifics yet, (pistons, rings, bearings, .....).

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Permalink Reply by Spike on October 18, 2009 at 10:39pm

Kevin, that's true it is in 1986 that the one piece seal cme along with the roller cam & lifters. But he was talking about using a complete engine/trans setup from the 89 Blazer. giving him the starter flexplate, etc to fit together. Let me know if I goofed.

Kevin Michael Lee said:

Spike please say different if I am wrong here. If I remember correctly, GM didnt go to the one piece rear main seal until 1986. That would mean that his Z-28 already has a 2 piece rear main, with the larger flexplate, which wont interchange with the 89 block. And also if they did things different in Canada, that 89 Blazer should be a 2 bolt main, not a 4 bolt setup. GM got rid of the 4 bolt main blocks with the early 2 piece rear main in the trucks. I had replaced engines in that year Blazer here at work in the past, and it was a 2 bolt main.

Spike is also right about checking your emission laws first there. I would go to your local shop that you trust and ask them before you do too many modifications. That Z-28 has what is called a feedback carb on it, and a electronic spark controlled dist, both of wich are controlled by the PCM. If you get rid of that carb, you will also lose the TPS sensor, which the PCM needs to work the spark control properly. It could get costly getting that 4BBL carb modified for performance use, to handle that 350. If you cant get rid of the PCM for emmisions reasons, I would suggest at least finding a carb from an 84-85 Chev truck 350, which should also be a feedback carb. At least it will be a larger CFM carb, and handle rejetting better, and your new 350

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Permalink Reply by Ismo Ojaniemi on October 18, 2009 at 11:31pm

I'm swapping the whole kit&capoodle! 1989 350cid with it's own computer and the carb??? ..I'm going to fuel injected son,..been a mechanic/fabricator/car restorer for 29 years. This Camaro will be my 108th vehicle, (25th I've kept). I don't use MY LOCAL shops...because I am the local shop!

Kevin Michael Lee said:

Spike please say different if I am wrong here. If I remember correctly, GM didnt go to the one piece rear main seal until 1986. That would mean that his Z-28 already has a 2 piece rear main, with the larger flexplate, which wont interchange with the 89 block. And also if they did things different in Canada, that 89 Blazer should be a 2 bolt main, not a 4 bolt setup. GM got rid of the 4 bolt main blocks with the early 2 piece rear main in the trucks. I had replaced engines in that year Blazer here at work in the past, and it was a 2 bolt main.

Spike is also right about checking your emission laws first there. I would go to your local shop that you trust and ask them before you do too many modifications. That Z-28 has what is called a feedback carb on it, and a electronic spark controlled dist, both of wich are controlled by the PCM. If you get rid of that carb, you will also lose the TPS sensor, which the PCM needs to work the spark control properly. It could get costly getting that 4BBL carb modified for performance use, to handle that 350. If you cant get rid of the PCM for emmisions reasons, I would suggest at least finding a carb from an 84-85 Chev truck 350, which should also be a feedback carb. At least it will be a larger CFM carb, and handle rejetting better, and your new 350

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Lee on October 19, 2009 at 1:15am

You didnt goof Spike, but I didnt consider about swapping everything over either. That was my mistake. Ismo, that is great that you can do all the work yourself. I didnt say to have a shop do the work. I said check with them on how your emission laws worked! And Spike was also right before, the 89 Blazer will be TBI fuel injected, not a carb set up. So you will also have to do something for the fuel pump to run the TBI.

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Permalink Reply by Spike on October 19, 2009 at 10:13am

If I'd known that you were wanting a TPI or TBI in the first place, I'd have answered differently. I'd have said use the 89 engine & powertrain. If TPI is what you want. Hit the junkyard and pick up oe from a late Camaro complete so that you would have all compatible hard & soft parts.
I allowed myself to believe that you were going in a different direction. Oh well, same game, different story.

Ismo Ojaniemi said:

I'm swapping the whole kit&capoodle! 1989 350cid with it's own computer and the carb??? ..I'm going to fuel injected son,..been a mechanic/fabricator/car restorer for 29 years. This Camaro will be my 108th vehicle, (25th I've kept). I don't use MY LOCAL shops...because I am the local shop!

Kevin Michael Lee said:

Spike please say different if I am wrong here. If I remember correctly, GM didnt go to the one piece rear main seal until 1986. That would mean that his Z-28 already has a 2 piece rear main, with the larger flexplate, which wont interchange with the 89 block. And also if they did things different in Canada, that 89 Blazer should be a 2 bolt main, not a 4 bolt setup. GM got rid of the 4 bolt main blocks with the early 2 piece rear main in the trucks. I had replaced engines in that year Blazer here at work in the past, and it was a 2 bolt main.

Spike is also right about checking your emission laws first there. I would go to your local shop that you trust and ask them before you do too many modifications. That Z-28 has what is called a feedback carb on it, and a electronic spark controlled dist, both of wich are controlled by the PCM. If you get rid of that carb, you will also lose the TPS sensor, which the PCM needs to work the spark control properly. It could get costly getting that 4BBL carb modified for performance use, to handle that 350. If you cant get rid of the PCM for emmisions reasons, I would suggest at least finding a carb from an 84-85 Chev truck 350, which should also be a feedback carb. At least it will be a larger CFM carb, and handle rejetting better, and your new 350

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